Mothers Of Lost Children – Indiana

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Angie Warnock is Blamed for Her Own Death

with 14 comments

Another local blogger, Stuart Showalter, has chosen to blame Angie Warnock for her own death, stating that she should not have gotten protective orders:

“Angela Warnock’s use of the Indiana Civil Protection Order Act for leverage in the divorce proceedings with the father of their two daughters failed her this past weekend. On Friday she had obtained an order that would keep the father from having any further contact with his daughters for two years. In addition she had the daughters, age 8 and 12, sleeping with her. These are both signs of Parental Alienation.”

How interesting he claims the Protective Order was a leverage tool, when she had the hearing on Thursday last week to uphold and extend.  Joseph made the run to the courthouse on Friday to file for divorce.

In the hearing last week, the judge continued the preliminary order that Warnock should have no contact with his family.  Love also suggested that the couple take their dispute to divorce court. Joseph Warnock filed for divorce the next day.

More Stuart:

“Parental Alienation is damaging to the child. Instead of promoting independence, the alienating parent encourages continued dependence by the children. The parent may insist on sleeping with the child, feeding the child (“It’s easier if I do it”), and taking care of these rites of passage longer than normal child development calls for. One theory about why a mother will act this way is that when a father takes his share of joint custody is that it is like asking her to give away part of her body. One mother said, “He is going to remove my right arm and take it for the weekend.” It feels like the mother has lost a profound part of who she is as a person. She feels fractured, pulled apart.”

Claims of  “parental alienation” are well known by professional bodies and as such, is not accepted by any for use against another parent.   

2006 – The National Council of Juvenile and Family Court Judges also discredited the theory.  It stated:

The discredited “diagnosis” of “PAS” (or allegation of “parental alienation”), quite apart from its scientific invalidity, inappropriately asks the court to assume that the children’s behaviors and attitudes toward the parent who claims to be “alienated” have no grounding in reality. It also diverts attention away from the behaviors of the abusive parent, who may have directly influenced the children’s responses by acting in violent, disrespectful, intimidating, humiliating and/or discrediting ways toward the children themselves, or the children’s other parent.

To see this report “Navigating Custody & Visitation Evaluations in Cases with Domestic Violence: A Judge’s Guide by Clare Dalton LLM, et.al., please click here, and go to Page 24. 

So whipping out the “parental alienation” card on this one Stuart shows just how twisted fans of this syndrome are.  More Stuart:

“Instead of encouraging the necessary interaction with both parents some battling spouses instead choose to use the children as a weapon against the other. Keeping children away from their fathers can have significant damaging effects. Children from fatherless homes account for 63% of youth suicides, [Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services, Bureau of the Census]; 71% of pregnant teenagers. [Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services]; and 71% of all high school dropouts [Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools].”

Actually research shows children are less at risk with mothers than with fathers.  How do you think the effects of seeing their father stab their mother to death works Stuart?  Is having a violent father around better than no father?  I know that is how the “father’s rights” advocates feel.  What about the children, Stuart?  What about the children?

“Often times children are withheld from the other parent as punishment for a perceived wrong. This is commonly done through restraining orders which in the majority of cases do not even involve an allegation of violence. [False DV Allegations Cost $20 Billion] Douglas Darnell, Ph.D. Cites that a parent who physically or psychologically rescues the children when there is no threat to their safety reinforces alienation by placing in the child’s mind the illusion of threat or danger. An alienator may assume that if a parent had been physically abusive with him or her, it follows that the parent will assault the child. This assumption is not always true.”

So Stuart blames Angie for her own death:

“This is another case that demonstrates that a Protective Order does not protect and may actually lead to the death of a parent who was otherwise not threatened. In child custody cases every effort should be made to ensure that the children maintain healthy relationships with both parents. Not doing so can not only damage the children but, as in this case, cost the alienator her life.”
 

Shame on you, Stuart Showalter.  Because of abusive fathers and other father’s rights supporters who use claims of “parental alienation” against women who have genuine fear of their lives, lives will continue to be lost.  As these women continue to die, more and more people will realize the lies you spread are self-serving and dangerous.  And more children will continue to lose their mothers.  Shouldn’t the focus be on stopping violent fathers from doing this, rather than on another “blame the woman” again rant?

Any legislator that buys into your argument needs to be voted out of office. 

 

Also see:  Former Miss Kauai killed in stabbing at Indiana home , He Swore He’d Never Hurt Her and Former NeoNazi/Skinhead Fights for Boone County Fathers While Blasting Mothers

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14 Responses

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  1. […] Also see:  Happy Fathers Day: “Daddy Stabbed Mommy”, He Swore He’d Never Hurt Her and Angie Warnock is Blamed for Her Own Death […]

  2. […] Angie Warnock is Blamed for Her Own Death […]

    Mothers

    June 27, 2009 at 3:50 pm

  3. I knew Autumn. And though I never met her mom, Autumn talked about her mom of only the highest praise. Angie was a great women. Joseph Warnock, Autumn’s father and Angie’s husband, was not.

    R.I.P. Angie Warnock,
    Riley

    Riley

    June 28, 2009 at 1:20 pm

  4. […] Also see:  Crime of Passion? No, it was MURDER  and Angie Warnock is Blamed for Her Own Death […]

  5. Before I put up my two posts today,

    post (2) is kind of a case history, triggered by a recent stalking incident and dialogue on “How’s Come these Laws Aren’t Enforced?”

    and post # (1) “Where’s Mom?” (a futile search for usage of the word “mothers’ or “motherhood” in association with “Families” “Children” or “Parents” on the white house “Issues / Families” page. On this, it being June, this page is also flooded with Fatherhood Links, Sites, and in general has a masculine thrust to it. I wasn’t watching this page during May, but based on the newspaper headlines, including some with Obama gearing up for the June Jubilee (in association with FR man Jeff Leving from their mutual state of IL), I’d say that Mother’s Day (month) too, like Mr. Stuart here, too, like some sites (like USGOV sites) that ought to be a LITTLE more balanced in the definition of who’s in a Family, pretty “full of it” too, and I mean, where’s the word Mother?

    But Mr. Stuart’s reasoning catches me in the last 2 paragraphs, with their lead-ins from this blog author:

    “Actually research shows children are less at risk with mothers than with fathers. How do you think the effects of seeing their father stab their mother to death works Stuart? Is having a violent father around better than no father?

    {{Actually, and unbelievably, there are still discussions on whether or whether or not, killing, beating, threatening, stalking, or hurting a parent (i.e., DOMESTIC VIOLENCE) actually matters — or doesn’t really matter — in the policymaking, conference-holding stratosphere. These are reports about what’s going on at the street level; perhaps some of these conference-goers should read the newspapers (alternately, the laws against DV, Child Abuse, Child-Stealing, Child-Molesting, and Stalking, among other things) to see if they can come up with the same answer two months in a row.))

    HE CHARACTERIZES THIS AS PAS:

    “Often times children are withheld from the other parent as punishment for a perceived wrong. This is commonly done through restraining orders which in the majority of cases do not even involve an allegation of violence. ”

    {{The word “cases” is pretty generic, and those stats sound ridiculous. And Ph.D.’s in this field are a dime a dozen. Every divorce may contain a restraint on disposal of property before it’s final — is he counting those too? Otherwise, and in context of THIS discussion, these restraining orders PER SE contain an allegation of violence, they are beseeching the court to Order that person be “restrained” from doing it again!}}

    [False DV Allegations Cost $20 Billion] Douglas Darnell, Ph.D.

    In order to not be so generic, I’ll speak for my own, 10yr old case: I have noticed (in the motions and related correspondence from some of the allies — my ex basically doesn’t write, but he has a mouth, and several people who also speak for him, at me) that generally speaking there is a 1:1 correspondence between accusation and behavior. I”ll explain after this next quote:

    “[[Stuart’s cite, Darnell, Ph.D.}} “Cites that a parent who physically or psychologically rescues the children when there is no threat to their safety reinforces alienation by placing in the child’s mind the illusion of threat or danger. An alienator may assume that if a parent had been physically abusive with him or her, it follows that the parent will assault the child. This assumption is not always true.”

    Talk about mincing points! In order to derail the topic from being a fairly horrible role model (which a son or daughter might model later in life), this is a form of child abuse And suppose it was ‘not always” (100%) true. What about the times it WAS true? We’re recommending placing kids with batterers?

    The law in my state, hard-won, says there is a rebuttable presumption AGAINST this. Thanks to talk like this, in high places, on and on, there are many (federally funded) ways to skirt the law. Or simply ignore it. For one, how many people traumatized by DV, loss of income, and loss of contact with their children — to someone who used to beat them — are going to really, I mean, REALLY, follow through and hold the agencies responsible to hold the judges (et al) accountable, to actually BE accountable?

    . . .. Oh, by the way, I’m one of them. . . . .

    . . . .And in my case, this actually happened. He “had” to abduct them for an “imagined” situation (blatantly false) to “protect” them. The situation he wanted to protect them from, by abducting them was — get this — abduction. Oh, and they needed to be enrolled in school (when they were in school at the time, and said abduction not only failed to prevent an abduction (by me, at least), it also held them truant.” At what point is this delusional, or what point lying? I’m in suspense — any one have a non-junk, scientific test (not theorty) to tell the difference?

    Or, if a parent is both delusional and chronic liar (or one of teh above) does this go along with, say, domestic violence, and should we have a conference on whether it REALLY matters ot the kids? For that, see Lundy Bancroft, The Batterer As Parent. There’s an overlap with some of this with incest. After all, what are you going to say, “I did it, because I believe it’s acceptable?” Well, how many lies are needed for that scenario? “I”m a NAMBLA member, and I want my little boy back, to protect him from his PAS-afflicted Mom?”

    But this is about Protective Orders. Sorry. . . . .

    “So Stuart blames Angie for her own death:

    “This is another case that demonstrates that a Protective Order does not protect and may actually lead to the death of a parent who was otherwise not threatened. ”

    And the moral is — don’t seek a protective order?
    This is EXACTLY what fathers around the globe (not just country) ARE telling and demonstrating to mothers. It’s been known for years that this is a dangerous thing, leaving abuse, and yet still they are being stabbed, killed, hung, and kids also gassed, etc., etc. Set on fire, even. Sometimes with Dad, too.

    Now we have a FR advocate actually affirming this: It IS a message to women, each death, and each rant like this — it’s your own fault for seeking protection, for alleging (even if true) violence, and telling the world, you are a full-status citizen and no one, not even a spouse, has a right to assault you.

    More Stuart:

    “In child custody cases every effort should be made to ensure that the children maintain healthy relationships with both parents. Not doing so can not only damage the children but, as in this case, cost the alienator her life.”

    On the same rationale, blacks and women (in that order, in our country) shouldn’t have spoken. Apparently also, Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X, and neither Jack nor Robert Kennedy should’ve stuck their necks out about what they thought and believed. And wouldn’t the world be a better place, and families all be healthier if they never had, right?

    . . . .
    Yep, serves them thar rabble rousers right for trying to stand upright.

    Note: I’m not always in this sarcastic a mood. I’m just upset that I could manage, somehow, to lose my children to someone who acted exactly like this caricature of a parental alienator. In our case, it was the Dad. But I can’t ditch Dad — he shows up, has texted, has called, and I’ve already moved multiple times since the original protective order kicked him out, and properly so, too. I have a sense we are not considered “even” yet and wondering in this delusional method of thinking, how flat and motionless “even” actually consists of. . . . . .

    Moral of the story. Ph.D.s are experts in SOMETHING, and many wonderful PhDs exist in this world. More and more of them nationwide, however, including Cornell, Georgetown, Harvard?, elsewhere, are being federally funded to specialize in– you guessed it: “Fatherhood.” The trickle down of this language has seeped into DV organizations, public policy, the courts, and is most definitely flowing in the gutters of our cities, along with female and children’s blood, including Ms. Warnocks. . . . . . . . This is basically vigilante violence, and reminds me of the KKK activities, based that time on color, not gender, and also considered patriotic and virtuous to promote, and enforce.

    familycourtmatters

    June 30, 2009 at 12:19 am

  6. The blogger seems to be “into” hate crime- bigtime.
    Sickening.And- I am not surprised.

    Cold North Wind

    July 2, 2009 at 3:30 am

  7. […] seems Stuart Showalter, from Boone County Fathers, has a radical background.  He has the nerve to blame Angie Warnock for her own death because she sought and received Protective Orders to protect herself from her […]

  8. It’s also damaging to keep a child with a father who is an abuser of alcohol and various narcotics…and is verbally abusive and manipulative.

    Denise Funkhouser

    July 13, 2009 at 12:11 am

  9. OK, this Showalter dialogue is officially now more than a year old. I can’t even bother to read my own long dialogue on it from 2009!

    But in reviewing your post, and the comment on PAS that Showalter cites, I want to point out what “Site” he got it from:

    “o whipping out the “parental alienation” card on this one Stuart shows just how twisted fans of this syndrome are. More Stuart:

    “Instead of encouraging the necessary interaction with both parents some battling spouses instead choose to use the children as a weapon against the other. Keeping children away from their fathers can have significant damaging effects. Children from fatherless homes account for 63% of youth suicides, [* * * *Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services, Bureau of the Census* * *]; 71% of pregnant teenagers. [Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services]; and 71% of all high school dropouts [Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools].”

    The fatherlessness may also relate to poverty, or the prior domestic violence that occasioned Daddy no longer being there may have previously compromised, say, WORK?

    Picking one interpretation only is ridiculous. However, it’s clear that HHS is the breeding ground (at least to start with) of the Father’s Rights programs (NFI, Wade Horn jumps ship, etc.)

    NOTE: The judge advised them to go to divorce process. Well, that may sound reasonable, but if we need a better proof that this is where batterers RUN to hide (he ran there, right?), then why are judges advising men to go there?

    If domestic violence is a crime, then treat it like one. If it’s not, then treat it like it isn’t. But flipping from “it merits a restraining order” to “she’s just using that to get control” is causing legal ADHD.

    I doubt this is going to be settled in our lifetime…

    Amen!

    August 23, 2010 at 8:45 pm

  10. This is disgusting! Angie was my aunt, and autumn and lexi are my bestfriends/cousins. How can you blame a woman for her own death??? Maybe its the fault of joe, a drug addict.

    Avery

    January 11, 2011 at 11:45 pm

  11. It is in no way her fault. I know Avery, Autumn, Lexi, and knew Mrs. Warnock when she was alive, i agree completely with Avery on this. Joe was a drunk, went insane and killed his wife, and that Parental Alienation crap, no way. Autumn told me what happened and that is stupid. They loved their mom, and were mad at their dad because of what he was doing. They made that conclusion on their own.

    Megan

    January 22, 2011 at 4:13 am

  12. Dear Avery and Megan, I am so sorry for your loss. Stuart Showalter now is making his way around the Indiana statehouse influencing lawmakers with his absolute crap. Many women are being blamed of PAS when in actually it is abusive partners that are hurting and killing women, in front of the children, yet they blame the woman. If I have anything to say about it, I am not going to let rhetoric like this to happen. Again, I am so sorry for your loss. Hugs to you both!

    mothersoflostchildren

    January 22, 2011 at 4:57 am


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